fwd, rwd, awd - discuss.

Following from an age old debate you will get on every multi-marque club you see, i want a debate. i dont want childish tit for tat, i want a proper debate, with genuine reasoning and discussion. i'll start with my views.

FWD - often people flap on about fwd as the best because they are yet to fully experience rwd or awd. my opinion is that with fwd, correctly set up, you can easily have as much fun, if not more than rwd or awd, because its easy to use, fairly predictable and not so punishing on a car.

RWD - often seen as the experienced drivers choice. i have not properly driven a fast rwd car to see the good or bad sides. however i have had my mates E30 316 sideways, years ago. the way i see it is that they are great for getting the power down, weigh transfer etc, however dependant on whether its a performance car or not, they have a tendancy to catch you out with oversteer, as a few members here will agree. wouldnt be my first choice as i dont like ring twittery moments lol

AWD - awesome for sprint/hill climb, driven a few now and got to say they are very mixed bag. its a fine line between awesome handling and understeer. not too sure myself, id have to drive a few different awd's to be entirely happy with what i was going to buy. obviously you buy skylines and your all but garantee'd an amazing handling car. lesser cars and your into the limbo territory. dave has always pointed out that gtir's like to understeer, as i have read on the gtir modifiers and the gtiroc too. spend money on good mods and your away but its still luck of the draw whether you get the right bits or not. if i had the cash and a good drive in many awd's then i reckon it would be my choice.

For now, im more than happy with my almera gti. its barrel loads of fun and easily driveable.

Ive had powerfull rear wheel drive cars.....and my last RWD car the S14 was the most frightening car i have ever owned....it would change ends very quickly.....not sure how powerfull it was but it was at least 330BHP and only about 1200kgs it had full drift suspension,hybrid turbo,manifold,lightened flywheel,race clutch...etc.....i sold this for an R33 GTR as i was scared to death by it........the s14 was monstrous in acceleration but very worrying,the guy who bought it of me said it would destroy his GTR in a drag race.....
I much prefer my GTR (AWD) to my old S14 and as my GTR is 400+bhp it is around the same acceleration as the S14 but would be much quicker on the strip for obvious reasons,and would completley and utterley out handle it,it was designed by Nissan to do the same to Ferrari's....
I have owned FWD cars but none of them have been true performance cars........i have however driven some FWD performance car's,and althiugh not Japanese,these have been very good indeed.....Pug 205 1.9 gti very underestimated.......Golf GTI very good again.......
All my present cars are AWD and although my RAV 4 is not a performance car,the other two in there own ways are.......the Vehi-Cross is a halo car and is a road going version of a Paris-Dakar race car...dont think it would be as good over ropugh terrain in only RWD in fact it has TOD which is "Torque On Demand" which is similar to a skyline in the way that it transfers power from the rear wheels to the front when needed.....i can run it in RWD only,or AWD......even though it only has about 230bhp the back end steps out quite easily.... so if its wet i run it in TOD as it improves the handling.......the Skyline speaks for itself ......
As i dont claim to be a "race" or "rally" driver i use the cars to assist my driving......
This old addage of the cars "thinking for you" is bollocks,with that attitude we may as well do away with all technology altogether and have wooden blocks pressing against the tyres for brakes and not run "cheating" Turbos..............
Come on guys does it matter............just enjoy the cars for what they are.......a bit of fun.........i know i do.........

its not aimed at anyone G, just a friendly debate.

..your S14 however was what i would categorise as 'the wrong mods' drift suspension - 'fankooo!' maybe on some better suspension it would have been a great straight liner, i felt that thing go, not shy at all just a bit unstable.

tommo wrote:

its not aimed at anyone G, just a friendly debate.

..your S14 however was what i would categorise as 'the wrong mods' drift suspension - 'fankooo!' maybe on some better suspension it would have been a great straight liner, i felt that thing go, not shy at all just a bit unstable.

Yeah Tom i know it isn't aimed at anyone... ....but some of the RWD boys often have a pop at FWD and AWD........funny how the newer super cars are AWD though isn't it.......i mean look at the new GTR........think that says it all.........personally i don't care as all i do is drive to work,go shopping,and go to shows in mine........so any subtle differences in chassis dynamics are lost on me.......
But for what it's worth.....i prefer AWD for more spirited driving.......

we all know 'fwd iz da best' anyway

Too be honest Tom in many ways it is...........

Isnt there a limit to what a FWD car will take. I thought it was around 240 hp anything more and its difficult for the car to put the power down. I do think that a lot of RWD cars with big power are wasted due to lack of traction either through susspension or tyres ect. Without slicks fitted there is always a problem getting them off the line at drag meets and the more power the harder it is to stop the wheels spinning even in 2nd gear.

Hi everyone, I'm still alive. I do read the forum, though im so lazy, I can't write anything...

I think the ability of the driver plays a large part. I wonder which would the beginner, average and advanced drivers prefer? Perhaps as well as the fwd/rwd/awd aspect, each car has its own idiosyncrasies which also need to be learnt and play a part in the handling and performance; I'm much better driving my car now than in the early weeks, I really think I know now how far to push it before it all goes wrong. My previous car was rwd too, so I have got used to that style now. I'd love to try an awd car. Andy, have you got your car back yet?

Stu.

oooh this could turn into a pandora's box....

but my 2p's worth.

Firstly, anyone who says that *** is best and *** is shit is frankly an idiot tbh. as Stu said each car and drive train as its own merits.

Look at FWD, on a decent car with a good chassis (Regardless of suspention upgrades) can handle very well... two examples of this are the Civic and Integra (and without wanting to sound like a Fanboy, the celica... Anyone who doubts the celica, i'll gladly take them out and prove that a FWD celica handles.... even with stock suspention... and old, tired suspention to boot ).
It does piss me off when people look down thier nose at FWD, because ultimatly FWD gives you control, predictabilty, Ease of use and can be alot of fun.

On the tecnical side, it offers the least amount of transfer losses through the drive train (Unless the engine is at the back in a RWD), on the down side launching and striaght line traction is an issue, specifically on the higher power FWD cars.


RWD.... often refered to as... the "proper" drive train or the "drivers" choice. i have driven a few RWD cars (Although no high powered versions) and their is a certain amount of stigmatisim regarding the unpredictable handling, that it will bite you etc, which in someways is unfounded and incorrect. certain cars do incapsulate this unpredictable-ness, specically modified versions.

in the right hands, RWD is fluid, predictable, great at handling, launches well etc

In the wrong hands, is simply put a death trap.

In some eyes, F1 is the pinicle of motorsport, and all F1 cars are RWD.... that being said they do develop an extortionate amount of downforce, which obviously needs to taken into consideration.

I do honestly believe in the best hands, the fastest car around a track (Please note, i do only consider this statement accurate in terms of track use) will be a RWD car. But... how many of use only drive on tracks..??

AWD.... one word tells you everything about AWD.... Grip... Grip... Grip

Traction is AWD's selling point... as dave said, until you hammer a AWD on full lock out of a junction (wet or dry) you cannot truly appricate what AWD is about. It's not just that tho, launch a AWD again in the wet or dry and you weill get oodles of grip... it is astonishing to be honest.

there are downsides too, AWD systems are more complex... espicially the skyline GT-R (which is a work of art)... increased Transfer losses.... Heavyier..... Greater strain on the engine.... understear (The GT4 for example does naturally understear... But its very simple to change this and cheap, in fact about £110 roughly).

In terms of road use, i'd personally take AWD everytime.


Basically, i firmly belive there is'nt a "best" drive train, there are just better drive trains for different situations. They all have strengths and weaknesses. it all comes down to which you personally prefer, but what you yourself prefer can be totally different to what i prefer etc.

and with that said, who has the right to say that person X is wrong while person Y is right.... No one.

Tony

Good comments Tony......basically mirrors my thoughts.........
Car hasn't even been started yet Stu..........so i'm lumbering around in my VX .......

It all comes down to basic driver ability and preferance front wheel drive just does not have the fun factor and as BMW say the best way to drive an object forward is from behind. Personally i feel rear wheel drive takes much more skill as it is far less forgiving, and then it also depends what you want from the drive as alot of modern cars with all thier systems do take alot of driver skill away, but please dont get offended it's just my view as I grew up with rear wheel drive, and would always go for it it over fwd or awd.

no one's offended jezza, this is why i set this up, debate

tommo wrote:

no one's offended jezza, this is why i set this up, debate

Cool. (P.S. when Aston martin make a front wheel drive i may have to reconsider lol)